Posts by Morgoth

It is precisely because most MMOs for the last many years have been turning more and more p2w the genre has been kind of dying or only attracts the gamble addicts who barely care about the game in the slightest and simply wait to get their fix by pulling on the next banner.

But at least the gacha-type of live service games tend to be honest from the very start they clearly say what they are. While on the other hand you see typical MMOs starting very f2p friendly and then very firmly change their tune in 2 years or so becoming more and more p2w through similar added mechanics, RNG, and monetization - of course leading to losing most of their player base in the process and then end their service eventually as the gamble addicts in this scenario are not as many to keep the game alive like they are/would be in the gacha-type of MMO scenario.

Besides who would want to play on dead servers? - hence why once server merges start aggressively in MMOs is the very clear first indicator (aside from the dead servers) that the game is in clear decline and shrinking.

I also think the western gamers especially have moved on from the grind type of games that require a lot of time in the same repetitive tasks and you can see how many big MMOs nowdays struggle to balance that and work on fresh new ideas to step in to fill the void, even Final Fantasy 14 with the upcoming expansion are working on ground-breaking ideas reworking their entire battle system, trying to reduce repetitive tasks and come up with new ideas to replace them.

Our time is limited, our money is more limited than ever before as well on the most part, games that don't adapt accordingly will fade out.

----

Now about the Nostale classic the story and levels ratio could also be compressed, even if they include future acts as time goes on, 99 be absolute max but you don't have to reach 99 level with act 5, but maybe something like level 50 especially with time spaces tied to story becoming much less in number in later acts you can spread it across much more nicely without ever needing to introduce champion levels.

Besides I am of the opinion there are much more creative ways to introduce and progress-lock new gear even when we reach 99 level without introducing new levels to be able to use them.

Act 6 can easily just be +5 levels, then act 7 the same and so on, assuming with act 5 max is somehow level 50, with all the current acts the max level would be 75 so still room for future building.

I would also cap the levels with the acts, if lets say act 1 is from level 1 to 20, till they release act 2 the max level will be 20.

They could build some backup experience to slightly reward older players who hit max for some time and once the cap increases when you gain normal experience by killing anything you will also be taking something like 10% on top of it from the backup experience giving you a small boost and no experience really ever be lost even when you reach the max level.

Quote from Another

In any case, I really appreciate that the discussion has remained constructive. Whether it happens or not, I hope the idea continues to be passed on and reconsidered in the future.

As I said the demographic has aged and that shows: in this thread alone we are all 25+ years old, we may disagree on some parts but by large we remain civil/constructive and discuss them out rather than throw petty insults or attack/taunt for no reason at all.

We have also detoxed from the pvp arena/raids so that's probably a plus too lol

Disclaimer: Yes, generally speaking there's a lot of players in the community who their mental age does not match their physical age.

Oh and in case I wasn't entirely clear above, as I argued the changes wouldn't really make it a Nostale classic but a different more convenient version instead, I am obviously more on-board with the convenient version rather than an absolute classic version of the past as I said in my second(?) post in this thread. Ain nobody got time for that grind anymore.

Quote from FormerPlayer

We actively look for Nostale news from time to time, so you do not need any new marketing, just market it using the same resources as you do when launching new acts, and we will eventually hear from it.

My point was that this is not very reliable, yes, perhaps eventually some or many might hear about it or maybe not. And how many who hear about it would actually try it out for longer than 1-2 months.

You would definitely need a new approach in marketing but I guess on this one either you are overestimating how many people who quit frequently check the news/game or maybe I am underestimating it.

From personal experience as a player and later as a team member ever since I lost both connections I have been checking less and less, the week became a month, the month became months and sooner or later it will become never - and I have witnessed this through the many years I served this community with many players following this exact pattern (exceptions always exist).

Quote from FormerPlayer

- Way more resources are needed to create whole new acts than to polish current acts. If you need ideas to make current acts profitable, read the “NosOrigins master plan” document I have attached.

Fair enough. The only difference is on the new acts and content they have data to know how profitable they gonna be versus having no data how successful the Classic version will be and the possibility of then supporting both versions at the same time. Keep in mind that Entwell is not that big of a developer/company.

But lets be honest Nostale has been navigating the years in the same waters more or less not taking any significant risks.

Quote from FormerPlayer

Things that made me quit AND will be solved in NosOrigins are: the endless grinding, non-NosTale-looking monsters, empty maps, zero story quality, and most important, the inequality between players.

In summary, I think what instead of asking “IF former players will return to Nostale”, I would rather ask “HOW do we make former players to return”. I personally do not care about new soulless acts at all. Instead of asking “IF current players will play new acts” I would ask “HOW can we keep current player engagement with the acts we have”. Every new act you launch is a new knife in my heart.

The 2008-2012 Nostale I played needed many improvements, but the amount of people playing it globally demonstrate that more people were willing to play it, than play the current Nostale. Therefore, I attach two documents with my thoughts of what NosOrigins should look like. It includes ways for GameForge to make money that do not rely on launching new acts at all.

You are already purposing changes that would require a significant polish and removing elements of what Nostale classic would be about.

- Endless Grind -> That's how Nostale was back in 2007, I would know, I was there.

- Empty Maps -> I cant say they were very populated but the maps were smaller so it was not as noticeable - also more players (not alts or bots) so it looked more crowded than it was.

- Non-Nostale-Looking Monsters -> Yeah I can understand what you mean here and probably which acts. At the same time over the years, I can understand the developers changed and the art direction changed, etc.

- Inequality between players -> This was always a thing but of course heavily skyrocketed with the introduction of shells with act 4, and SP wings + 99level and points system (in combination of the 2).

- Zero story quality -> Not that the story was ever the strong point of this game (subjective opinion) but it sure became a bit of a joke after perhaps act 5? even act 5 is dodgy I guess but at least it looked similar as the rest of the game.

If all this made you quit the game, more or less most of them were present since the dawn of time, changing any of that wouldn't make it Nostale Classic but just a different more convenient version.

Nostale from 2007 dare I say all the way up to 2022 with ups and downs in certain community-language-servers have had a lot of players despite all its problems and inability to adapt with more modern MMOs of its type along with not realizing a big part of its demographic aged.

If I am not mistaken now the entire game is down to 2 international servers not counting the event servers like Nosfire. I have no picture of how healthy they are currently but we can most likely agree its not looking great, compared to how it was.

Why I am saying this? basically to answer your question of: "HOW can we keep current player engagement with the acts we have" I believe the game is past that stage, I would be very surprised if they can pull a 180 on this.

As for the: "IF current players will play new acts" -> I don't think there is an IF here, I am sure Daveius and the Community Management has feedback and intel/data that shows current players want and do play the new acts along with everything those new acts bring, new systems, new SP cards, and so on.

If he had numbers that the current player base wasn't interested in this then more than likely the game would not be getting new acts and so on or a new Nosfire type of server.

Saying that... It is also clear that for the last 4 years or so the player base has been diminishing a lot simply due to all the merges.

At the end of the day, I am obviously not against this nor am I saying you should give up, if it came up to some sort of a vote and it happened to be in the year I remembered to check the forum I would vote yes. I am simply giving you a bit of a detached point of view of someone who has moved on from the game for almost a decade now (I think I quit the game for good around end of 2017 from player perspective) and despite still remaining involved and active in the community through serving it as a Team Manager for more years after that till 2025 I cant say I would be any eager to play, but always happy to be surprised I suppose.

PS: 0 alts whatsoever if it were to happen, thx.

To be fair I doubt he only takes feedback/suggestions from 1 place but multiple across all social platforms: Discord, Forum, Reddit, Steam Discussions, FB and whatever else they have along with in-game.

The argument is mostly, how many of us old players would actually stick around for longer than 2-3 months or so after we get the nostalgia fix, it is a risky investment of resources from their part and it is understandable.

Back in 2007 we started with act 1 and act 2 and just the 2 first SP cards.

So I would expect the classic version to start from there, and the pre-nerfed act 3 would also be fun to see again later down the line.

Nosbasar, the bank, Inventory expansions, Gold amount increases, tones of quality of life updates I would definitely want even in classic, stuff that wouldn't entirely mess the nostalgic feeling but still provide easiness.

I always had the opinion that Time-Spaces and quests should provide about 70% of the total exp you need to reach the new max level.
for example when a new act releases and the previous max level was 60 and now it is 80, the quests and time spaces should level you up all the way to 74/75 and you are left to grind the last 5/6 levels which should take a fair amount of time it is after all the last levels and new acts take a while.

Personally I would say the quests and time spaces should just outright give you all the exp you need but Nostale was never this type of game and people who like to grind are still here after all... but given that everyone has about 800 alts by now you don't have to do it once but multiple times to level everything and do the same thing over and over again it probably would be nice to make it faster to reach max level at this point.

If you only had 1 character or lets say 3 even, taking about a month to reach max level in a grindy type of MMO is not all that crazy to me but when you are pretty much expected to have 10 alts or so that starts to get tedious.

I have always voiced my dis-likeness about alts from the moment they first appeared, I can understand to a degree why a game would allow it but not sure why allow unlimited number of them for each person was necessary.

Any so called problems no alts bring can easily be solved if you allow 5 alts per person, I would even argue 3 alts per person would be enough, more than that always seemed an overkill to me.

The decision to allow alts happened all the way back in 2010-12 if I remember correct at least for the EN servers and from there basically nobody would take that away.

I for sure do not think anyone will take it away now 15 years later after they were first allowed, so there is little to no point to overly discuss this, is how the game runs and it has been over-discussed for many many years and no change ever happened, sometimes you just gotta take the hint already.

Quote from atarias

Good evening !

Do you know if Nostale will one day adopt the same strategy as Flyff Universe ?

That is to say a new start of Nostale Classic (Act 1, Act 2 and Act 3) on browser, mobile or tablet ?

With HD Graphics ?

Thank for your reply !

---

Here's a glimpse of the idea !

Display More

Where it was already discussed: Nostale Classic

Quote from atarias

Okay, let's put Nostale Classic aside.

Will Nostale one day be playable on multiple platforms:

- Mobile

- Tablet

- Browser ?

And will it one day have hight-definition graphics ? (keeping the current graphics, of course)

Display More

Nostale used to have a browser version however it did not go very well, a lot of glitches and bugs, eventually it was discontinued. I doubt we will get to see another come-back.

There was a game for mobile but I would say it was a different game and just using Nostale assets, it was developed by Entwell of course and I believe it also closed, however a lot of the partner SP cards and maybe monsters somewhere in Act 6 and 7 or so were actually pretty much imported from the mobile game.

HD graphics would be nice to have and in general a more refreshing look we can only hope Entwell would be up to that task lol

You claim that a Nostale classic would be attractive enough to bring back so many people that quit the game all the way back from 2007 to 2015? (or maybe also a bit later)

I honestly do not see how this would work out at all, for starters you need to spend a lot of resources in marketing and advertising it otherwise, how would people who quit for almost 20 years now ever hear about this?

Then we go into the problem assuming Gameforge spends all those resources and majority of old players manage to hear about it, do we think they would come back AND play consistently to make it remotely profitable? I have my doubts here.

1) There is a reason you quit a game, whether life prevents you from it and you have to let it go, or you simply moved on, besides even if they did bring the time back, we all know where its gonna head to again slowly in the next few years, unless you expect them to develop those 2 versions separately, Entwell (the developer) simply cannot support something like that.

2) Nostale Classic exactly as it was back in 2007? I am not sure that's super attractive, nostalgia aside, I would prefer some classic version with quality of life improvements made in all over the years and bug fixes.

As a very old player that quit about 10 years ago, I can tell you that I would not come back if such a server opened, obviously I don't think that means nobody else would just cause I would not, I am merely giving you a different perspective from an old player's point of view that goes a bit against what other players have said in this thread.

Old Nostale would require you to grind a lot, none of us (obviously) is a teenager with nothing to do anymore to waste all that time, we have life and responsibilities as most of old players are now in their 30s and much higher.

Nostalgia was not just the game but also the people we played with at that time, maybe yeah I would be curious to make a character (if my name wont be taken) and try to see if anyone else from the old times thought to check, but its more of a catch up "omg you still alive LOL" kind of situation I really don't think many of us would stick around because frankly we would still be playing current Nostale... Sure you could argue it has changed a lot but we quit the game before it changed this much and it is precisely because we quit the game that it has changed this much as the current community wants different things, like Nosfire Servers to build 200 more alts and whatever people do nowdays.

In short, people who would consistently play Nostale classic would be very few at least from where I see it, so I cant blame Daveius being harsh on it.

I would prefer them to spend those resources to make Nostale 2 or upgrade Nostale to new engine and give it a new look better graphics, etc as it may end up being more profitable or bring new players, especially with more character/SP customization and outfits that will look actually good (along with your character).

Basically modernize it while keeping your uniqueness, not easy I know.

Quote from englanddouspeak_it?

Quote from Daveius

However, it's important to clarify that this information going public is intentional since the very moment it is handed to content creators. What nobody wants is that the information is distributed in the shape of an attached document on Discord instead of a proper video or livestream showing and explaining the content. But if not in a video format, the information would go live one or two weeks in advance as a news anyways.

I think it's flawed and doesn't reach enough people and fast enough, if you're not checking news 24/7 you're already at a disadvantage

As long as the said news is not something that is going to make a material or item currently worth 300 gold to skyrocket to 5mill+ each where of course having such information 2 weeks before anyone else is indeed going to give you a very high advantage over other people and that really should not happen as Daveius said would affect many players negatively due to unfairness.

Besides the whole point of the so called content creators is to help spread the news at the time Gameforge wants them to so more audience gets informed 'properly' precisely because nobody is checking forum/discord 24/7.

Information that could affect the market to a harmful degree should always be kept as secret as possible in my opinion and in general sense the 'content' creators should do well to remember that if their existence becomes more problematic than helpful then Gameforge would have no reason to give them such documents to share news within their communities, possibly losing their views due to it in whatever platform they use (Youtube etc) as they would no longer be able to provide any 'early insights' and that usually attracts people.

Quote from Lot

But wouldn't it have been simpler to simply limit the number of Nostales that can be opened by IP simultaneously?

It is not that difficult to bypass that restriction and then comes other issues such as (different) people playing from the same IP will no longer be able to, that would not be desirable.

Quote from ^-[Gordin]-^

Instead of taking measures to combat people who took advantage of these methods by using bots and/or programmes to control dozens of accounts at once and generate large amounts of gold, they prefer to nerf these ways of earning gold.

They are taking measures against it, whether we agree or disagree on the efficiency of those measures is another subject but clearly for them to take such a decision the abuse was still too high even with the measures in place, besides them nerfing this way of collecting gold doesn't mean they cant boost other ways to with less abuse from the botters.

Quote from 7Days

likely already approved and a finalized version of the changes.

I would slightly correct this part that, till changes/patches go to live servers everything even what is shown by Game Designers and QA people as teasers are still subject to change.

But yes of course its a more ready version so to say.

Like every year our beloved Mimi's birthday is around the corner!

She has already started receiving the first gifts and birthday cards from her friends, filled with many kind wishes.

As you could imagine she was overjoyed!

But... this year, one gift in particular catches Mimi's attention, it is a small beautifully wrapped purple box with a gold-embellished ribbon.

However there is no card or any other hint for Mimi to know who left this mysterious gift for her.

Mimi decides to open the present and she finds a necklace - a gemstone is attached to it.

"That looks valuable..." thinks Mimi. She carefully takes the necklace and examines it more closely.

The gemstone shines in four different colors, green, yellow, red, and blue, as she turns it around she finds something to be engraved on its back.

Mimi tries to read it:

She deeply thinks: What could this mean? And who is this gift from?

Mimi needs your help to solve the riddle!

Join us on a mysterious journey full of obstacles and wonders.

────────⊹⊱✫⊰⊹────────

Sadly Mimi is clueless and doesn't know where to start with her research. The amulet looks old... so maybe someone who resides in this town and is an expert in magical jewelries can help her.

────────⊹⊱✫⊰⊹────────

Overview of Birthday Events 2024

Collecting Event

Searching Event

Scavenger Hunt

────────⊹⊱✫⊰⊹────────

Dear Players,

This year, we invite you to celebrate the 17th birthday of NosTale with us!

As always, a few small events await you to discover together

how Mimi's story will turn out this year... ?!

────────⊹⊱✫⊰⊹────────

Quote from Another

As an alternative, how about implementing a one-time payment model for access to the server? This way, players could enjoy a balanced gameplay experience without Nosmall items, and the company could still generate revenue. The fee could be set at a reasonable amount to ensure accessibility while supporting the ongoing development and maintenance of the game.

That would not be enough not at this late stage the game is in, so essentially you would not be changing anything really.

Also there is a reason so many MMOs stopped being a subscription-only games and switched to F2P, its because F2P games are more profitable, targeting aesthetics like costumes and similar (However Nostale doesn't have good graphics so that is not something they can do unlike other games of the recent years) or RNG based systems to make you spend more.

Especially as a one time payment model once the regulars buy the game which probably gonna be around 20 euros or something then they wont get any money ever again and there wont be enough new players to keep that income healthy.

A monthly subscription maybe could potentially work but I find it unlikely if we compare to other few games having it around 10 euros per month it would be unreasonable for a game like nos to charge as much or more when those games are made in recent engines, have better graphics and so on.

The only way I personally see achieving some sort of balance is, keep Nosmall as is or even make the items you buy from it even more attractive to spend money on but also create lesser version of these items and put them inside the game to be obtainable through farming ways and PvE etc.

Example: Upgrade scroll from nosmall - 50% or more reduce of mats and gold costs and also boost the chance to +5% so +10 gear automatically becomes much easier to achieve for someone wishing to pay money.

Upgrade scroll from farming/PvE/Raid - You don't lose the gear but you get no reductions in mats and no boost to the chance.

People who cant or don't want to pay money will try their luck and spend more time but can still achieve it eventually.

Money way - Saves time to people who work and cant spend that much time and want to pay for it. - In the process keeping the game alive and rolling

Farmer way - You have time to waste, so get to it, you play the game and can still achieve your goals without having to pay or rely to Nosmallers too much unless you would want those juicy scrolls from them.

Alright, so, your suggestion is to remove entirely from the game the one thing the game makes money from while you suggested no alternative of how the companies Game Developer and Publisher is gonna earn money out of the game.

Not exactly what you asked for but in a way close enough: Summer Oasis Server: Magical Break

Quote from Another

1. Is there any chance that this summer, like the last one, a new international server might open?

We do not have any info regarding that at the moment.

Quote from Another

2. What percentage chance is there that this server could be classic? Like the first expansion of NosTale, and gradually get new seasons?

It has been suggested before but we also don't have any info about that right now.

Personally I would estimate the chance of that happening rather very low, it would be a risky move and if it doesn't pan out it would be extremely difficult to merge a server like that if the activity decreases dramatically.

Mandra Football matches list:

The Matches will take place in the following dates and times:

26.06.2024

18:00 Match 1

18:45 Match 2

19:30 Match 3

27.06.2024

18:00 Match 4

19:00 Match 5

29.06.2024

18:00 Match 7

19:00 Match 6

Not to be a topic-killer but I am pretty sure everyone responsible at Gameforge is aware every not so active server would wish to merge with Dragonveil. The problem is if Dragonveil would be able to withstand all the additional people to the already existing issue of several channels being 'Full', especially if the not so active servers get many returning people since they are now on an active server.

Merging with a very active server is a good thing but if not done with caution you will not be able to play anyway as you would pressure the server beyond what it can support and then you will make a poll of "Increase Dragonveil server capacity"

yes

yes

yes

"We lag and all channels are full we cant play"

Hello, football fans of NosTale!

We are here with another new and fun event.

As the name indicates the event is football! therefore you will have to group up and create teams. Each team will have 6 players in total and one of them will be the captain of the team. Below you will find the registration form to register your teams, from there we will gather a list of all the registered teams and we will raffle it so we can choose 2 teams to play against each other as the first stage of the tournament from there the winning teams will advance to the next stage and continue until we have the first place, second place and third place winners based on participation.

In more detail of how the football will work, a mandra will be placed in the centre of the map and the objective is to pull it into the opponent's goal, for every mandra you manage to pull inside the opponent's goal you will be receiving 1 point. The final and semi-final matches will last 20 minutes each, the other matches will last 10 minutes each. The team ahead in the score will advance and the losing team will be eliminated from the tournament.

Note: Once the timer runs out that will result to the end of the match, if no team has managed to score a point by then the referee will look where the mandra is. A score point will be given to the team that has managed to pull the mandra towards their opponents' side of the map and therefore closer to the enemy team's goal gate. (This rule will not apply for the semi-final and final, for semi-final and final it will be a golden goal = whoever scores first after timer is out.)

1. All players are required to register their teams within the specified period.
2. Teams with missing members on the tournament day will not be disqualified however you will play with what you have present.
3. There will be no substitutions after joining so be very careful with your registrations.
4. All Game Rules apply.
5. It is forbidden to participate with multiple accounts.
6. Players who disrupt the order of the event, violate the game's rules, and make it difficult for players and administrators to work may be disqualified from the competition.
7. Buffs, costumes, and items that provide a speed boost or cooldown reduction(!) are not allowed (as well as all wings that provide a speed boost, as well as titles and related pets and partner specialist cards)
8. Pets and partners will not be allowed and they must stay in the miniland.
9. A Mystic glacier stone or the heroic amulet of Fire must be active.
10. Insults, provocation, unsportsmanlike behavior, and other offenses (e.g. continuous use of fireworks) will be punished without prior warning.
11. Each team must consist of 2 swordsmen, 2 archers, and 2 mages.
12. Swordsmen must use sp1 (Warrior), archers sp2 (Assassin), and mages sp6 (Tidelord).
13. If players' names change during the event, it is the responsibility of the team leader to inform the team via a forum message.
14. You need to be ready at the specified match times (match times will be published after the draw).
15. Semi-final and final matches will last for 20 minutes, other matches will last for 10 minutes as already explained above.
16. You must complete at least 1 match to receive a prize.

Our event will be held only on Dragonveil server between June 26, and June 30. Application dates are between June 6, and June 20.

Participation in the event is very simple, after you gather your team the captain will have to fill the form given in the link below!

Registration Form to participate in the event

First Place Team special pets (players can choose one pet from the list below)

Dark Scorpion

Flame Butterfly

Weak Punkie

Water Grasshopper

Kenko Spy

Second Place Team: Panda (Limited)

Third Place Team: Royal Rabbit Carriage (Limited)

For all participants: Mini Pet 'Phoenix' (30 Days) (Limited)